Did you know that you are not only allowed to use coupons with programs like WIC and food stamps to lower your total bill, but that doing so is encouraged? Using coupons saves these programs money, allowing more families in need to receive assistance.

Federal Aid programs can really help those in need. If you are currently receiving assistance, make sure to purchase sale items, swipe your loyalty cards, and use coupons whenever possible! Simply separate your purchases into approved food (covered by WIC/ Food Stamps) and non-food items (those not covered), and make sure to hand over all applicable coupons before you run your EBT card or hand over your checks/vouchers. Your final total will be lower, allowing you to purchase more food for your family. Also, when coupons are used, less taxpayer money is needed to fund the transaction, and therefore more needy individuals and families can participate.

Please note that these programs encourage coupon use. If your retailer says they will not accept coupons with these programs, call the appropriate program hotline to report the store so they know what to do in the future. If you have a shopping guide or paperwork that states how coupons are encouraged, take this with you to checkout to help out uninformed cashiers.

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86 thoughts on “Extreme Couponing Tip: Use Coupons with Food Aid Programs!”

Some stores though actually charge food stamp users to use coupons. My local store, which is a chain does but Walmart doesnt.

question about rite aid.. do you know if you pay for a transaction using your +UP rewards and the new transaction is supposed to give you more +UP rewards.. will you get the +UP rewards for the second transaction even though part or all of that purchase was paid for by +UP rewards??

Sometimes you will have to pay something even though its free… I have had to pay a few times but if they say I have to buy. I cancel my transaction and go elsewhere.

I try not to judge… But the moms on food stamps purchasing the sodas and Cheetos and all that candy and junk food… Whatever its their prob if they don’t eat healthy, or dont buy more fruits and veggies. I don’t eat with them.
I get assistance because we live in a high cost area. I do buy junk snacks every two weeks but only if there’s a coupon or if I have rewards from the drug stores. I buy steak, shrimp and beautiful fish, but the steaks usually treated to make it tender the shrimp is rock bottom priced and the fish is usually on sale. I can do that because of the way I coupon I don’t have to pay for toiletries or household items. I just buy lots of fresh veggies and fruits, price match at Walmart and use coupons and overage to pay for that. I do get a lot of items I don’t use for free but my FAmily might want or neighbors or the food pantry. There’s no shame in needing assistance. There’s sorrow in abusing the system.

They should not be doing that. When you use EBT it should negate all TAX, because the government is not going to tax their own money! Ha!

So an issue I had on WIC is that I asked WIC about using a BOGO on things like milk, cheese and cereal. I had a BOGO block of tillamook cheese coupon that I got from tillamook, and my wic paid for one block of cheese a month. I wanted to use it to get the other block of cheese free. I called the WIC office and they said they had never heard of anyone doing that but that it should work and they thought it would be great if it worked out for me. But when I went to the store they just told me flat out no, even though it wouldn’t have added even a penny to my order. =/ Anyone else tried using BOGOs on anything like milk, cheese, cereal, juice, anything really. I know we had BOGO frozen juice concentrate recently, and that would have been really nice to stack.

the reason it wont work is because wic doesnt have anything to do with price.. it has to do with amounts.. except for in some states they give another voucher for fresh produce.. its stupid but thats why the bogo items dont work most of the time :(

My family receives assistance and we do this all the time. I don’t even know how we would be able to stretch our food stamp budget if it wasn’t for coupons. With coupons we can almost double the amount of food we can get for my large family of six.

Wow, that’s a lot of food stamps. I’ve been looking for work for 2 years, and my husband works full time, but on minimum wage and we only get $200. Our rent along cost 73% of what he makes, we have not a penny to do anything to keep from wanted to commit suicide. I try to pick up babysitting jobs on the side and doing surveys, but I don’t even reach $100 a month. It’s hard, and coupoing definitely makes that $200 stretch to feed us both for a whole month. $200/month means that we have only $1.11 per meal each. That doesn’t get you far when you want to eat healthy. =/

hen we got $670 we had NO income, now we get $477 for 450 meals which is $1.06 a meal. Coupons double this to $2.12 a meal. If it is not on sale or we don’t have a coupon we don’t get it. There is no eating out, period.

Yeah, thats how we are. =] And the coupon has to take off at least 40% for me to get it. My husband cries sometimes because he doesn’t get steak and beef too often, but he is much healthier now! We switched to ground turkey for everything from burgers to hamberger helper and meatballs in our spaghetti, and i love it. A fraction of the price and I don’t feel like a pile of grease after eating it.

I stocked up on free pasta and sauce from Albertsons a while back and that has been a godsend. Something free to go with any meal, so we can afford to buy a $2 bag of shrimp and have it with pasta. =]

Couponing has definitely been amazing to us. My husband loves when it gets to the end of the month and I have managed to leave $20 on the card for him to get a little treat. Our guilty pleasure food is California Pizza Kitchen, which just came out with some coupons!

I see other people buying so much stuff with food stamps that’s super pricey and I just know that amount doesn’t last them until the end of the month. And I always mention that they should start looking for coupons for stuff they were already going to buy. =D

Thats amazing.. We get 280 a month for foodstamps.My husband works full time but he JUST got back to work after being let go back in december.. I work part time from home we have 2 growing boys. One of whom is severely autistic. I would work more but with his school and dr appt and with my 2 year old its hard.. Im transitioning to doing m,y work at nights here in the next couple of weeks so i should be able to do a bit more but once we are off the food stamps it will be hard plus trying to get out of this trailer thats falling down around us.Im working on a small stockpile now when we still have the benefits (no room to make a huge one yet lol) but once we are able to get out of this place I plan on cutting my grocery bill by at least half while still being able to continue my stockpile .. its a neverending battle lol

Nichole thats amazing what you are doing in your community.. i always find it interesting that the ones who are the most giving toward others are the ones who need it too.. i think its cause we know what its like to be in that same position.

I try to make sure to go and do WIC during a “slower” time of the day. Just to be respectful. I had a lady behind me in line one day say “I won’t make this mistake again”. I said…you must not be a mamma. Because a mother would never be so rude. She shut it pretty quick. It’s shameful how poorly people treat us because we are on this program.

I have worked since I was 4 years old (my family owned two commercial agriculture farms) I have paid taxes since I was 15 years old. In 2007 I was involved in an accident that nearly left me paralyzed from the neck down, it has been a very long and painful journey to my new normal. My husband is disabled and receives only $700 dollars a month I receive nothing because according to our government, there is nothing wrong with me although I have had multiple surgeries to stabilize my spine and most days I walk like Frankenstein because I’m so stiff and in pain I can barely move. We receive food stamps and at first I was embarrassed by that but then I realized that I have been paying taxes for almost 30 years and I have NEVER received public assistance before in my life so I have nothing to be ashamed of. I have fortunately never had to deal with rudeness from anyone in regard to my using food stamps but if I ever do you can be sure they will get an earful from me. I never expected to be in this situation but life happens while you’re busy making other plans and so here I am. No one knows what I’ve been through unless I tell them and frankly it’s no ones business that I receive assistance. I do not qualify for any other programs so I am not draining the coffers dry and besides, my taxes have supported many a family when I was able to work so I feel no shame now that others are supporting me until I can get to a place in life that I am able to start giving back. Anyone who thinks I’m lazy can kiss my grits :)


I think it’s horrible that people like you can’t get on disability and then there are people like someone I know (not going to mention the affiliation because I hate the person) who is getting disability for having a bad back, and on top of it he works very physical jobs for under the table money. Essentially stealing from the system yet somehow able to stay on it (I have made a tip they did nothing about it). But that is my boyfriends exact sentiments, he has been paying into the system for 15 years, paying a pretty good share of taxes as he had a good paying job but he was laid off in a shady situation. Now we just need to use it until we can afford to get off of the assistance.

I think there are a lot of people that stereotype people that receive help through these programs. Since I am on assistance, I must be lazy. Or the if she didn’t have so many kids line. The truth is, my husband works constantly. I am in nursing school. Its not like we r sitting in front of the TV being lazy all day. We r pulling ourselves out of a bad situation that we were thrown in when my husband lost his job 2 years ago, right after we had our youngest child.

My husband and I believe that if you are on any type of gov’t assistance then you should be required to do couponing. Only because it helps you stretch that budget to make sure that you don’t run out of funds and/or food. And that excessive junk food should not be allowed. We do have a local lady that completely abuses the system. She receives food stamps, she coupons, BUT the items she purchases she sells on e-bay. And makes a KILLING… That is just unnecessary. Obviously if you are making money you shouldn’t be on the assistance program. -_-

If you ever find out her name, you can report her, because it is completely illegal to sell your foodstamps and the stuff you buy with the foodstamps. If I knew her personally I would warn her about it, but if she kept it up, I would report her. I’m not trying to be mean or anything, but there are people who really need that, and she is completely abusing the system and the reason why so many EBT users are looked down upon.

Ive never seen her personally or do I know her name. I just know that other members of a local couponing group im a part of talk about her. I would def report her. Its not right and here in Fl there are sooo many homeless people who would kill to have just an 1/8 of what she has. I also know that she is one of the reason our local stores put limits on items to be purchased. Which isn’t fair to us other couponers either. But I believe in Karma and she will get what she deserves soon enough!

Michelle, I’ve never heard of this EBT tax. What state are you in? I think you should call your local DHS office to confirm this. Stores are like Wall Street. They are fleecing the public to make more money.

Samantha, I’m in Michigan also, specifically Detroit. You are so right about the $10 steak scenario. I buy cheaper cuts of beef and slick to the desired thickness and tada! My steak and it only cost me $0.79/lb or $15 bucks for a beef rump roast #MoneyMaker and three meals lol. When I began couponing, I wanted to see how much $$$ I would save all around, food, gas, clothing, etc. So I made my budget according to the sales for that week and only shop close to my home, once a week! I only shop CVS, Kroger, and Mike’s Fresh Meat Market (sometimes). and I’ve saved beaucoup cash just by making these small changes.

Thank you for this post KCL! I am so sick and tired of the looks and rumblings. I tell people if you have something to say to me, own up and say then I can shut you down with my story and make you feel like the jerk you are. I’ve done it several times and they look at me like How can you be on assistance? Little background. I have a bachelors degree in business. I’m currently working on my MBA degree and I receive disability payments because of my chronic asthmatic condition. I first worked when I was 14 and didn’t look back until I got sick. I’m better and have an 8 y/o boy who is cognitive impaired, ADHD, and ASD. Long story short, you don’t know the story behinds someone’s EBT card or WIC voucher. Here in Michigan, I’ve NEVER had a problem using my EBT with my coupons. I wish a company would deny me the right to have enough food in my house for the month. I would be on the phone so fast to corporate and the local TV stations, it would make their heads swim and NEVER try to degrade me or any other person again!

I had to be on food stamps years ago and the same thing happened to me. The reason that it cost was because you have to pay tax using the coupon. I din’t have any money either until I did some digging in the bottom of the purse for change. Lesson learned here….keep throwing that spare change in the bottom of your purse and continue to extend your food stamp allowance by using coupons.

No she had to pay the taxes on the coupons. Some stores like Walmart does that. Encourage her to continue to use the coupons and she may have to go to another store. It really pays off in the end and you save a bunch.

I started couponing when I had to go on food assistance. My cashiers at Kroger actually encouraged my use of coupons with Wic! I try to encourage other food assistance families to do the same and shop smart.

Did you ever try using a BOGO coupon with Wic? I tried once and got turned down, but didn’t know if it was just that cashier (because I didn’t push it to management) or if it’s really not allowed? The 1lb of cheese they gave me a month never lasted long and I had a BOGO free coupon that I thought would be great since wic encouraged coupons, but did not limit. Just wondering if you tried at all. =]

At Safeway, they actually come out with coupons for people on WIC. I use them all the time! They had a coupon for B1 block of cheese and G1 for free and also a B1 block of cheese and G1 pack of sandwich sliced cheese. I love their coupons for WIC! I get great deals and my son can eat more with the amazing coupons Safeway come out with for WIC users. They have also had B2 100%apple juices and G1 for free :) That has been my favorite. Also, they had a coupon in their ad that had B1G1 free yellow corn tortillas or brown rice. For my WIC I have to get 32 ounces of whole wheat bread, yellow corn tortillas, or brown rice. So I got 2 corn tortillas and 2 bags of brown rice which equals to 64 ounces of these items. So there, I doubled my amount and got great items to eat for my son. :) If you have a Safeway, go and use those amazing coupons. Safeway is a very great place to use WIC and Food Stamps with coupons. They highly encourage it. If I sometimes forget, they will take some out of the ad and help me out too :) I love how nice they are.

What area are you in? Because my safeway does not have coupons other than the just4U online stuff. I live in Lacey, Wa. We don’t get the doublers here either.

I’m in Portland, Oregon. The coupons I’m taking about come out in their ads. Their ads come out every Tuesday. Go to the front desk and ask for their ads when you go shopping. They always have a lot on hand. These kind of coupons in their ad, for WIC, usually come out every last week of the month. So like, this Wednesday, they will come out with some coupons in the ad for WIC. Check them out and get more for you and your children :)

I started getting WIC for my son when he was born also because he had acid reflux and couldn’t drink regular formula. So his special formula cost us 40 dollars per can which is almost double what other formulas cost. Not to mention my son has an extremely high metabolism and was going through about 15 cans a month. So yeah, I sympathize with formula being expensive, it destroyed our savings that we had put away for him. Which is why we had to get WIC too, formula companies charge WAY too much.

Katherine, me too! My 2 year old when he was born was extremely sensitive because he was so small. That was when we had to go on WIC. The Aliementum formula is almost $40 a can. I had a cashier (while looking at my now 1 year old) say to me…”So are you done having kids?” one day while I was doing my WIC. I said to her…if you knew my circumstances, you wouldn’t judge me. I then lost it on the store manager. Who was mortified and said that he too and his family were on WIC. . A little less judgement in this world would go a very very long way. These programs are out there to assist and they do just that.

I also get charged tax for using my coupons with EBT.

I used to get wic myself.. I get food stamps still.. SIDE BARGAIN
NOTE: If you have a Fred meyer Rewards card and you scan it with your wic transactions that counts towards your rebates and your gas rewards too!

I use my WIC with my Kroger card to get gas points :) That’s $150 in formula alone. I don’t know what I would do without WIC.

dont i know it..its insane how EXPENSIVE formula is.. even all of the formula i got on wic didnt last but 2 weeks.. I was always asking my dr for free samples and luckily i was signed up for different formula websites and would get coupons for money off.. still spending AT LEAST 50.00 out of pocket every month

The formula I got for my son didn’t last him hardly at all either, his formula was 40 dollars a can because of his intolerance. Even though we had WIC with it we still were paying 300 dollars a month extra because he ate so much. The WIC office even gave us extra cans of formula because my son literally never stopped eating and was still underweight. Even now as he eats real food he’s still in the 95th percentile for height and the 10th percentile for weight… couponing definitely helps feed him, don’t know what I would do without it. Because we’re in that crappy zone where we make just enough to not qualify for food stamps, even though we qualify for WIC, yet not enough to afford everything we need.

What kind of formula if I may ask???thats an insane cost.. im so so thankful for what WIC did cover even though it didnt last the whole month.. Have you gone to the formula manufacturer website and gotten coupons?? Ive heard of people just calling the manufacturer and asking for samples or coupons.. it doesnt hurt to ask

He’s off of formula now, thankfully, it’s a formula I can’t spell…nutramingen. Basically it’s a formula that doesn’t have any cows milk in it yet no soy either, it’s basically a synthetic formula. I got coupons for it because they sent out the 10 dollar checks every few months but it still didn’t help much. I’m very very glad he’s over that, basically he when he was born some part of his body wasn’t completely mature and he was intolerant to most formulas. Around 10 months or so we started giving him milk and he was doing ok with it, so we started pulling him off of the formula because it was cheaper and he was thriving more on straight milk.

If there was only more fresh produce coupons at Stop and Shop… I get WIC but only $6 for the whole month. I appreciate the program so much though. I have depended on it for the milk alone. I’m so grateful but I do wish I could get more fresh produce than anything. I can save amazingly on everything else with coupons but my savings just goes right back to the produce.

I wish we could get more produce with WIC also, I would gladly give up the cereal for more produce. I can get coupons for cereal but not for produce, and 6 dollars goes very fast. Some tomatoes, a pepper, and lettuce and it’s gone.

If I have a stock-pile of anything its cereal haha. Only I have been eating it for the past couple years. My daughter just recently (2 years old) started eating it, besides cheerios for snacks. I am grateful because I bring it to work and give those who cant get the assistance some help. I agree, that check can only get a few items. You have to get them on sale and even the sale price is so high. What upsets me is when my store does a buy 1 get 1 sale like on the bagged salads or strawberries you cant get that free item. I tried it both with the produce check and the bread check when they do the bogo free. They say you cant get the free item. Im sorry, but if people need the food assistance, who better get it free than those in need? That just doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t know if its just stop and shop or what. If anyone has experienced this or has gotten this free item for the sale let me know.

Gah, I don’t know what happened to my comment! Has anyone have problems getting the free item for a bogo sale? If stop and shop has a bogo sale on say strawberries or the bagged salad my cashier said you cant get the free item with a WIC check. Same thing with the breads when they do bogo. Im sorry but who better to get the free item than someone who is in need and on food assistance. That just doesn’t make sense to me.

Really? You’d think the bogo sales would be encouraged by WIC because of the fact they don’t have to pay anything… Especially with the fruit and veggie check, that’s almost discrimination because the fruit and veggie check is a set dollar amount not a set food amount.

That’s what I was JUST about to post, lol…Check the laws of the state you live…because I know in CA (and others–I have lived in a few different states), the only consumables that are taxable are soda, prepared foods, and a few other exceptions. Other than those, groceries are non-taxed. :/ Sux for those that pay taxes on foods that shouldn’t be!

I gotta say Ibotta is a total blessing to someone on food stamps like myself. I really don’t have it in my budget to get any kind of food outside of a grocery store but it enables me to go out and eat with friends every so often and to actually not have to worry so much about what exactly I am going to have to do to be able to pay some of my bills.

I agree! God bless you

Thank you for this article. Just today I was almost turned downed at Target for purchasing a food product with my EBT card. I had to get three people to ok my purchase. It was embaressing and uncalled for. I have purchased many food items there before, but they try this all the time and it comes from the Cashiers not being informed by Target what the policies really are concerning EBT and coupons. I printed this out to take with me the next time. Hopefully it will help. God bless you for your help and research. Thanks.

Target is weird like that and can deny foods from week to week. I tried to buy oreos for my husbands birthday cake and they refused to accept it for the oreos. I asked to speak to a manager and she told me that the EBT program is the one denying it, which isn’t true because I could buy it at any other store with EBT.

I was at Target couple days ago couponing. The store I was at had a posted sign saying they accept EBT by where they had their ads display. Mayb u should check there to see if they have it. Or look at the door as you’re walking in. They should have a sign somewhere or call the store before u go.

Congrats on the weight lost and I wont pay those cashier any mind if they give you attitude. Next time look at them and say Are you paying for my food? Keep up the weight loss!!

Congrats on ur weight loss. I’ve lost 18lbs since April n I’m on food stamp. The food stamp help me buy more of the fruit n veggies. Helps me save cash to pay for gas to go job hunting. Here in California gas prices are around $4 a gal.

it is true Food Lion charges customers a coupon tax when they pay with EBT.

It may depend on the store. The drugstores around here actually charge tax on the food items if you use coupons so that may have been where the money came from. Normally tax is exempt but for some reason if you use coupons then stores still take the tax.

My family receives food assistance, and I always use coupons with my purchases. I have never been charged anything for using my coupons. Although I have received cash back. Every once in a while, even when I’m purchasing only food items, I’ll end up getting like a $1 in cash back. I can’t explain it, and neither can the cashier. But they just hand me the cash. And I guess I’m not the only one that this is happening with either.

This has happened to me at Rite Aid with food purchases and coupons. We think it’s because of the coupons that I get money back sometimes. If you are buying a food item and have used a coupon for it, but in the end get it free once you swipe your card it registers that you paid too much and gives it back like change. It doesn’t state why but like you the cashier just gives it to me and other shoppers as it’s the registers tally and to keep it right she cannot have the extra cash in her drawer.

You r getting the cash back because your coupons is more than your purchase and you have an overage or you got the balance down to where you were owed the money..

A few years back we were on the food stamp program. My husband (now my ex) had been laid off when the company he worked for went out of business and I quit my job a few months before after my third child was born. The coupons really helped make the food stamps stretch and we weren’t struggling at the end of the month trying to figure out how to get money for groceries.

WTH!!!!!???? I have never heard of taxes on coupons before this thread!! At Riteaid, for example, their register rings up so detailed here, a coupon even rings up “non taxable”….So, I don’t know what these other stores are doing, or what stores may be charging tax to use coupons, but this does not sound right!! :/

There are not taxes on coupons so to speak but you have to pay the sales tax on the value of the item before coupons are applied. So if you bought an item for $1 and had a coupon to get it free, you still have to pay the tax on $1.

Food/groceries (read: WIC items) are NOT TAXABLE!

I believe that it is something new that they have instituted in many grocery stores. I watched someone’s bill increase b/c of the usage of coupons and EBT. For the $16/month I get, I just purchase items that i don’t have coupons for. I believe that the DSS needs to offer classes on using coupons w/any benefits b/c much of this confusion could be cleared up.

It depends on what state you live in. I’m in South Dakota and they just recently started taxing groceries.

My food sure is. 9% sales tax in Alabama applies to food and non-food items alike.

6% on food and products plus 2 % on each coupon where I live, with or without EBT.

Wisconsin’s rules on taxing food items basically is that convenience foods or anything that can be eaten anywhere. Like candy, ice cream, soda, chips, snack foods, and juices that are more sugar than juice… random other things, not all food is taxable though. Basically foods that you use for ingredients aren’t taxable.

I pay 2% on every coupon I use with or without my EBT.

Virginia tax rate is 5% on everything and 2.5% on all food/drinks. So, our sales tax is low! But, we do have a food tax. The only exempt items are medicine. For the record, I do not receive any assistance but I think this is a great article—I am not sure this is widespread knowledge though and it should be! Maybe if the DSS hosted a couponing class for free..

??? Something sounds hinky about that!!

I receive food stamps but a very small amount. coupons help me stretch my budget and I love it!

Ditto :)

Yes learning couponing have being a blessing for my family and me. Txs God KCL for your help getting the deals for us =)

I like your face! :)

People should never be embarrassed to apply for food stamps. Your taxes help fund the program, which means that you have contributed to it for times like these when families are struggling to survive. It doesn’t hurt to apply. If you are eligible, they will tell you. If you do not qualify, they will simply say no. You have nothing to lose. That’s exactly what I told my chauffeur when he picked me up with the limo from the Public Assistance Office and now he receives monthly benefits! :)

yaaaay!! Old Pizzaz face is back!! <3

Absence makes the heart grow fonder! 😉

It really baffles me at how ignorant people can be when they state “they are taking care of someone too lazy to take care of themselves or their children… and saying crap like their taxes are going to people in need based programs” Everyone pays taxes therefore people on foodstamps/wic ARE paying to feed their families b/c they are tax payers.If people were more worried about helping each other there might be one less person getting public assistance. People feel bad enough already without others adding their ignorance to the equation.

Exactly! Everyone is entitled to apply for it if they need it!

Even the Assistance office here says stuff like that, they always talk about how like the reason why we have to pay child support to the state of Wisconsin is because we use the tax payers money for wic and badger care. Even though we pay a premium on the badger care, and are basically contributing directly to the fund that we use. The only reason why we pay child support is because they punish people who aren’t married, we live together, we have for 6 years we’re just not married. If we would have ran out and gotten married before he was born we wouldn’t have to pay child support to wisconsin. There are a lot of flaws in the public assistance, and the idea that ‘tax payers’ are only people who are not utilizing assistance is the number one problem. If I didn’t have to pay like 30 percent taxes on my paycheck I would be able to afford more therefore I wouldn’t need help.

hahahahahahahaha can your limo guy pick me up sometimes?

We can all have a champagne breakfast together! 😉

Awesome I will look for a coupon for the champagne tomorrow

That’s really interesting to know. My family and I are on the WIC program and I (who never shops without coupons) was not allowed to utilize coupons. They said …”you’re already getting it free, why would you want to save money?”. I will have to show this to the store manager. Good to know.

My family actually get help with food stamps. We do not get much but what we do get helps a great deal. I would never shop with or without food stamps without coupons. Either way, you are lowering your total bill. If you coupon and use food stamps, you are just getting more for your money. This is a great article and more people should shop this way!!

We also receive assistance and I am a couponaholic so Im glad that Im saving money and helping others who are in need. However, I do notice that after you give so many coupons when using an EBT card, when you swipe the card it will tell the cashier “over tender is not allowed” but its an easy bypass to get it to work. I love saving money AND I love helping others in need (and apparently ive been doing this and not even knowing it)…